Tuesday, August 4, 2015

Ready, set, go....

This blog is established as a class blog for REL 320 Spirituality, Character, and Service, Fall 2015. It has a specific purpose in the working out of this class at Warner Pacific College, Portland, Oregon. I am the teacher for this course and will be monitoring it on a regular basis, especially after the class begins. From time to time I will post course relevant items here for students (and anyone else who bumps into it). As the semester develops, students will enter their own reflections on the course, their readings, and what they are learning--this is the real purpose of the blog. I am eager to see what developes--READY, SET, GO!

70 comments:

  1. Anna Winslow's Entry #1
    1. 3
    2. I do not have a lot of knowledge surrounding Native American history. Due to the fact that I am unfamiliar with the subject of the book, I think it is going to be a little bit out of my "comfort zone"...but, in a good way. I am looking forward to learning more, seeing how the story of a Native American man and his culture's history reflects the core themes of our class, and discovering how I can apply the information in the book to my own life.

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    1. I like this statement--such a great learning attitude: ""a little bit out of my 'comfort zone'...but in a good way." Love it!!

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  2. David Rigall: Entry #1
    1. 6. I don't know many specific stories outside of Oregon, but I am aware of many things that have happened to them as well as traditions.
    2. I like learning about Native American history. Although it is mostly sad and depressing after Europeans come into the picture I still find them fascinating. I love learning about history in general and tend to know more than most people do. I'm hoping to learn something new and interesting from this book.

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    1. Eager to see what you learn as you read through the book and follow the film. I think the two really talk to each other about the same issues--just in different ways.

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  3. Sarah Herd's Entry #1
    1. 4-5.
    2. I was excited after learning what the book was about. I know some about Oregon & Oklahoma Native American history. However it is not very specific and more generalized knowledge. I am looking forward to knowing more.

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  4. Maranda Henderson: Entry #1
    1. 5
    2. I am excited to read a text on Native culture. I took an Anthropology class a few years ago and the class briefly touched on Native Americans, so it is refreshing to know we will be discussing this text in class.

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    1. I hope you will share some of what you learned in anthropology--maybe too many years ago?

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  5. 1. 3 I'm not very familiar with Native-American history.
    2.I'm looking forward to reading the book Neither Wolf Nor Dog to help provide a better understanding of the Native American culture. When I found out that we would be reading a book on Native Americans I felt as though it could be quite interesting and educational as this is an area in which I have very little knowledge.

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  6. 1) 5

    2) I am curious to learn more about the Native Americans. If any group of people has a right to complain about mistreatment more than others, it is the Native Americans. We took almost all of their land, killed off most of their population, and most people in this country including myself don't really know too much about them and their culture.

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    1. So many people in our country "have a right to complain," but it does seem that living as a marginalized and "conquered" people gives them some further right to speak, doesn't it?

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  7. 1) 3 I'm not that familiar with Native-American history.

    2) I am curious about the things I don't know about Native Americans. Neither Wolf Nor Dog will help me find out some of the information that I don't know. I agree with Adam that they are the group of people who should actually be complaining if any, because we came in and took everything of theirs and made it ours. I don't know much about the culture or history of the Native Americans and this will be a useful book.

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    1. Not sure how much "information" you'll get from this book, but you will get a lot of insight into history and how cultures form and change.

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  8. 1) 3 I would say that I am not very familiar with Native-American History.
    2) I was excited to know that we were going to read a book that was recommended by Mr. Bill. I would like to know more about Native-American culture, so when I found out that we would be reading a book about Native-American’s and their culture I became more interested in knowing more about a topic that I know so little about. I am always very interested in knowing more about history and other cultures.

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    1. Really appreciate your "very interested in knowing more." Important attitude for a learner!

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  9. After reading the first six chapters, I wrote down some of my favorite quotes that Dan said. I had quite a number of quotes, but my favorite was on page 76 when Dan said, "Owning things is what white people's lives are about." This quote takes me back to when we read "On Our Way". In Chapter 8, "Making a Good Living". My group and I discussed what we believed the book was getting at when it described a good living. We as Americans and consumers tend to place more value on inanimate objects and what we buy from the store rather than value things like the people around us and the environment we live in.

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    1. I LOVE it when students start making connections like this one. I think there is a really strong connection between NWND and our other texts. Glad you see it, too!

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    2. Such a great quote! This quote actually stuck with me as well. In our society, materialism is the norm and it is "weird" or unusual to think of making a good living simply by not owning anything.

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  10. 5- i know relatively little compared to that of a learned individual such as someone whom has researched exstensively with an unbiased nature the history of native american peoples. My true answer would more accurately be 0,considering that an expert on the subject would know the ins and outs of Native American history as a continuous timeline; being that history is occuring right now;there is infinite information to be had about the plight of the Native American people as well as their successes. I do look forward to learning more about Native American history from the perspective of one who has experienced life as a Native American in the U.S.A. As well as documented and ubdocumented information pertaining to historical events,culture,religion etc.


    Initially i was not as excited about the text in general. However,i do look forward to learning more about Native American culture,as I have become particularly interested in learning about not just my history but the present,specifically the past and present of other peoples whom make up the society that I am a part of!🏀

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  11. Kaleb Hood- I'm not sure why my name is displaying as my middle name, but that is what it is telling me I am.

    My father spent a decent amount of time growing up on a Navajo reservation, so he knew and shared a lot of information about the culture with me when I was young. I was in boy scouts, as well as the Order of the Arrow, both of which drew some of their practices from Native American traditions. For this reason I felt that I was fairly knowledgeable, but I am continually surprised with the things I do not know.

    I am very excited to learn more, what I have found is I am very familiar with Native American spiritual practices and symbolism, but not until I reached high school and Warner did I learn about some of the pretty awful things European immigrants did. I want to learn more so I can reconcile what I know now with what there is to know.

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  12. 1. 3
    2. I am excited to read this book, as the other books I have read by or about Native Americans has been very eye opening and challenging for me. What I already appreciate about this book is that it is not a book that blames and criticizes White people, but rather opens a dialogue about the differences between culture and the lack of true listening or communicating that occurred in the past and still occurs now.
    I am not as familiar with Native American culture or history as I would like to be.

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  13. I'm really pleased to read how you are all connecting to this book. I hope that the "dialogue" between the book and the film will result in some important understandings and new perspectives on this very "hairy problem" that does not (and probably should not) go away.

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  14. I am thankful for how blunt the author is when telling this story. Kent Nerburn is not showing the reader a “storybook Indian” (31). Chapter 3 opened up my eyes to Native American history. I have never heard this portion of history displayed through the voice of a Native American. Dan’s description of how white people view land as “property” and did not take the time to listen to how Native Americans are part of the land and see it as their mother was so frustrating to read about. Being told about how animals that people viewed as brothers and sisters were being shot for recreation broke my heart (49). Dan’s statement, “You killed us without even taking our lives,” is haunting (50). He is describing the death of his land as the death of his people and culture. The idea of white people trying to make Native Americans “act white” is unsettling (to say the least.)
    In Chapter 4, I was surprised by Dan's feelings that surround being referred to as "Indian" and/or "Native American." He said being called "Indian" and "Native American" does not bother him because they are not real titles to him due to the fact that he does not consider where he lives as "America" (57). This idea is fascinating to me and gives me a new insight about how the land is viewed by Dan and his culture.
    A theme I noticed in the first 13 chapters of this book is Native Americans feeling like they are on display. On pages 18, 87, and 119, Dan and Grover compare Indians to animals at the zoo or circus. The fact that people are being viewed in an inhumane way is disturbing. This theme is evident in the overall exploitation of Native American land and culture. The people who are described as "wannabes," buying ceremonies, and getting pictures with people on the reservation are promoting another form of putting Native Americans on display (119, 125).
    This book makes me angry due to the past and present treatment of the Native American culture. I had no idea about the amount of horrific events that have taken place between white culture and Indian culture. This sort of white, dominant-idealistic standpoint that the government surrounds a large population of our country with (that is already evident in the movie we are watching, as well) makes my blood boil. I am thankful that I get to read honest thoughts from the perspective of both a white man, who is attempting to leave a sort of ignorance and trying to support a culture that is not his own, and a Native American a man, who’s desire is to forgive people who have done so much damage to his world.

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    1. After submitting my post, I realized that I did not address how this book has touched on the themes of our class. I am learning more about my neighbors and the world around me through this book. Kent Nerburn and Dan are trying to formulate an understanding between two cultures that have a violent and confusing history. Nerburn's drive to understand and respect people who live in a different fashion than him promotes our classes theme of engaging with our neighbors and the world around us. My eyes have been opened to new, harsh truths about the history of our nation and now I need to ask myself, "How, then, shall I live?" What is my role in this?

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    2. I too am upset by what I have been reading! So much of what we have been taught about Native Americans has been a lie. It was not until I took an anthropology class a few years back that my eyes were open to so much more knowledge. It is also unsettling to know how ignored Native culture is and underrepresented.

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  15. Not entirely sure if we just continue on this thread or not, but I just finished reading chapters 7-13. Throughout reading this I felt a wide range of emotions.

    In chapter 8, Kent Nerburn struggled with tying everything he's doing all together, and even wanted to give up. When he goes to Dan trailer and his niece is there to tell him that Dan has gone off on a trip, Nerburn gets instantly upset. In this moment, I could relate with him. I feel like everyone has had this moment of trying so hard to help someone and not being appreciated throughout the entirety of it. I could sense Nerburn's anger, and it even ignited my anger as well because who wants to be told that what they do doesn't matter?

    My anger continued when Wenonah goes on to say words like, "your people" (p.99) and tell everything Dan has gone through when Nerburn voices his frustrations. I feel like it's this thing where people say, "well, my life is way worse than yours, therefore you lose the right to speak about your struggles", you know? No one has the same life experiences, and no one has the same exact struggles..sure they could be similar, but it's not the same. So for Wenonah to basically say, "So what if you miss your family, Dan has been through hell and back" was completely unnecessary to me. It just could have been in such a different way....

    In chapter 10, from page 114 and on to the end of the chapter, I felt amusement when they were talking about the "hippies" and "yuppies" because it reminded me of a video I saw from buzzfeed (here's the link for those interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmrE2wqJOQ8 ) where people who identify their culture as Native Americans talk about what people wear at music festivals. This totally brings up the complex idea of liking another culture and wanting to wear things from it but instead of it being flattering, it's insulting (cultural appropriation could be added in). There's just so much misrepresentation of so many cultures going around that it's just this giant mess. What do you think about people wearing clothes or accessories from a culture that is not their own? For me, it's weird and I don't know what to think about it, For example, I love Japan's culture..would I walk around in traditional garbs and things like that? No. What do I think of people who do that? It all depends on the context of why they were doing and if they did it "right".

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    1. Kalah-
      I was taken aback by the amount of detail and heart that went behind Dan's words surrounding "Yuppies" and "Hippies." I have never really taken the time to think about the amount of significance that is behind some cultural attire such as feathers...and I believe that is the problem...people are unaware of the amount of meaning that goes behind some articles of clothing in the Native American culture, therefore, in ignorance, people wear them to music festivals. I am thankful that the book discusses this. Like you brought up, Chapter 10 has, so far, touched on this subject the most. On page 117, Grover talks about how some "wannabe's" wear eagle feathers when they are only supposed to be worn by people who have earned them in battle...it would be so frustrating to have people, so nonchalantly, wearing something that holds a strong meaning to your culture.

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    2. Kalah and Anna,
      I'm so glad you both touched on the misrepresentation of cultures. Having been exposed to the definition of cultural appropriation, it is frustrating to know the lack of knowledge so many people have when they decide to wear eagle feathers or anything else so significant.

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    3. I totally agree with you Kalah, I dislike when people try to invalidate others struggles. A lot of what people wear and a lot of their culture may represent their struggles, so for dominate cultures to freely expose, justify, and uncannily "take" bits and pieces of other cultures reiterates cultural approbation.

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  16. After sitting with the reading we have done so far I have many thoughts.
    1. The struggle of people from different cultures to communicate and understand one another. Until Chapter 12 I felt just as frustrated as Kent Nerburn does. How is Nerburn supposed to write a book when Dan is not being straight forward. I realize that this reveals how little I understand Native American culture. I recognize this as part of white/American culture- the needing something and needing it now. On page 134 Nerburn writes, " Help me. It must have been the hardest sentence in the world for him to say. Images swirled out of control. The shame of my own blood surged through me. He should not need any help. His people had been whole. His truth had been singular, unassailable, in balance with the land. It was my people, my race, my heritage that had placed him before me like this."
    Dan is making a bridge between the two cultures, trying to find a way to communicate.
    2. This book makes me angry at the treatment of any person described as "other." Multitudes of atrocities leak from this book and I sit sadly wondering how any person could harm another in those ways. I do not feel personally attacked by Dan. I am aware of my ignorance, Dan is right.
    On page 100 Nerburn describes some of the atrocities, "It's the place where he started wetting his bed and the matron tied the skin on the end of his penis shut with fishline every night until he got an infection so bad that he almost died."
    3. The spiritual need that Dan talks about white men having rings with truth, and I would broaden it to the need that all human kind has. I believe that since we are made in the image of God that we have a need inside of ourselves to be in community with God. Man tries to fill that need with things and stuff, alcohol, relationships, ect. Dad is pointing out that Native Americans are a spiritual people. They understand that need and they fulfill it for themselves. White men look and see that and they want it, as if it is a commercial item.
    On page 126 Nerburn says, " The white people want to own us spiritually. You want to swallow us so you can say you are us."

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    1. Melissa-
      I completely understand your frustration behind Dan not being "straight forward" with Kent. Your idea of America's culture having an "I need this now" attitude is evident in my own feelings surrounding the book. I read the first few chapters and felt anxious for some simple solution in order for Nerburn to "easily" write the book that Dan wants him to write...as if all he needed to do was put those clippings in the shoe box together and then sort of fill in the blanks. The complexity behind the writing of Dan's book reflects the complexity that surrounds the communication between two cultures...and I believe, as a reader, we have to learn the same patience that Nerburn is trying to learn. Like you, this realization made me aware of how little I know about Native American culture.

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  18. 1. 3
    2. I am excited to read about this book since I have not read any books about Native Americans. I have always been interested in the Native American culture, and in a way Native Americans have similarities as Native Hawaiian people. I know that right now there are two foundations that are involving the Native Americans and Native Hawaiians to work together to continue to preserve their cultures/heritage

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  19. The ideas surrounding language in Chapter 14 are fascinating to me. With every chapter of this book I read, I am learning more about the world around me…and also about how another culture may view me. Dan talks about how white people say the same thing in a hundred different ways (161). I have never stopped to think about the amount of “filler words” I use, or how, in conversation, I may just be restating my idea over and over again. Dan’s statement, “What was important to Indian people was saying something the best way,” is beautiful (161). There is a sort of peace surrounding the way Dan speaks of his language and how a lot of thought and patience goes behind each word. It hurts to know that Indians were forced to leave their peaceful and thoughtful language and had to learn English…a language that did not/does not fit with some of their beliefs or how they see/describe the world.

    When Dan said, “We should both live the way we think is right and try to help each other as best we can,” I was almost brought to tears (181). This is how I whole-heartedly believe that I should approach the world and my neighbors. Coexistence is beautiful, but taking that a step further and being a loving neighbor would bring the world a peace beyond measure.

    Chapter 19 also made me quite emotional. Nerburn tells Dan, “I feel like we’ve committed a crime that can’t be undone” (216). Dan then goes on to tell Nerburn that there is no solution to this problem. Kent Nerburn stated how there is a large problem at hand and then asked Dan, in his own words, “How, then, shall I live?” As a reader, I am asking this same question in regards to everything that has been discussed in the book. Dan’s response to Nerburn’s question made my heart sink. I know I need to be patient with this book, but I am eager to have my question answered…and it is frustrating to hear that there may not be an answer handed to me…I may have to work for my answer…

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  20. After reading the second section (chapters 7-13) I couldn't help but relate Nerburn's experiences to the movie Avatar. The natives on the planet Pandora don't trust outsiders because of their past history with them. This is not to say that their aren't good people who are outsiders, but the whole of the outsiders were trying to destroy the homes and the land where the inhabitants of Pandora live. This is strikingly similar to the struggle Indians and the white people. It took about 11 chapters for Nerburn to finally be somewhat trusted by Grover and Dan. Some of the most powerful quotes were the simple ones like when Dan said, "I was on Indian time." And when Dan said, "Welcome to our land." That last quote at the end of chapter 12 seemed to be a big turning point in the story.

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    1. I love that you related this to Avatar! I can definitely agree with how the two correlate. The natives in the movie felt their space was being invaded, just like in the book. We are not taught in grade school about the truths of how badly mistreated Native Americans were, but Hollywood seems to do tell us through entertainment. It's interesting that we can learn and correlate how people of color have been mistreated through Hollywood films.

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  21. 1. 4
    2. I have been learning somewhat of an overview of Native American history in professor Joe's ethnic relations in America course this semester and it has been very interesting as well as painful to learn. I am happy to be diving into this text which I hope will broaden my knowledge.

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  22. In Chapter 23, Dan told Nerburn, “You will drown under your facts” (278). He talked about how white history is clouded with facts and we lose the meaning of the past when we just focus on the details of what has happened. Dan used the example of how we remember Abraham Lincoln and that we are taught his birthday and when he died, but we don’t honor him by putting the importance of his life in our hearts. Dan said that tests are how white people validate their knowledge of someone or something (277). This point of view of how our culture approaches history is eye opening. I would love to be taught the way Dan described Indians are taught, through focusing on the meaning of a subject and not on details that have no major relevance to its importance.…I have experienced some classes like this, but a lot of my classes are focused on the “facts” that Dan was discussing...I have never stopped to really think about how I am being taught because it's the only fashion of learning I have experienced.
    One of the biggest themes in our class was discussed in Chapter 23. After the big storm that hit Dan, Grover, and Kent, Dan asked Kent about the direction of the wind. Kent responded by saying that he was not paying attention. Dan then said, “You’ve always got to pay attention. It’s important. What do you think I’m trying to teach you?” (285). Both our class and Nerburn are being taught how to pay attention to the world around us because we may miss things that are of great importance. For Nerburn, the direction of the wind had spiritual significance behind it.
    A connection that I made between the movie and the book is the idea of paper. In Chapter 22, Dan told Nerburn about how white people give paper power by writing everything down. He said, “All that is important to you is that they wrote something down. Once it was down then it was truth” (273). In the movie when the main character is trying to convince a woman to give him information surrounding a ticket that may lead to the name of someone involved in a murder, she responded by saying, “…paper is not power.” The idea that our culture puts a lot of social significance behind paper and what is written is stressed in both the movie and the book. When Dan talked about how white people wrote down lies instead of true Native American history, I stopped to think about what I have been taught about this subject. Everything I have learned about Indians has been candy-coated...never once was I taught about the true and horrific events that took place during one culture's attempt to takeover and destroy another.

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    1. Something interesting to mention is that learning in theater often looks at the big picture and asks questions like why? It is not focused solely on facts. Theater in its own way mirrors the way that Native Americans learn their history.

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  23. 1. 2

    2. I was really excited to start reading this book. A couple years ago I was confronted with the reality of the Native American history and the lies I had been taught in grade school. Unfortunately, since then, I haven't learned much more in depth about Native Americans, their history or their culture; so I was really excited to have a little more understanding about them.

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  24. When I read I really find a lot of questions arise from what I am reading. So most of this will be my musings/questions about the readings. I will try and answer/expound on my questions.
    - What would it look like if we valued the earth/land like Indians do? If we treated it as a living relative and not a place to inhabit?
    ○ I think our care of the earth would change, and our dependence upon it would grow. It would no longer be something that provides food somewhere else (not where I am) but a much more real thing, a nurturer and provider. I see why they view the earth as a Mother.
    - Why does Dan have a picture of life magazine with JFK on it?
    ○ What was JFK's involvement with Indians?
    - On page 16 Dan talks about how if you hate your people you cannot be a good person. I wonder how many people are the way they are because they hate their own people? "you have to love your own people even if you hate what they do" how many people can see this difference and then how many can live it?
    ○ What would service and community look like if more people lived this way?
    - Who is Ann Landers
    ○ She wrote an advice column from 1943-1955 in the Chicago Sun-Times
    § Why did Dan he save these columns?
    - I wonder how an Indian like Grover who served in the Navy was treated when he returned to the reservation and by those he served with.
    ○ I hope they go a little into Grover's life later
    - Life = "You can't be afraid to get things dirty" Page 34
    - On page 37-38 Dan burns the notes and old shoe boxes he had.
    ○ This to me is a metaphor for society today. How many boxes do we carry around that need to be burned? Dan found freedom from burning his boxes, how much happier would we be if we burned our boxes too?
    - On page 40 Dan calls out Kent for lying through silence. This really resonated with me. How often do we life by silence about the injustice around us? How often do we see something upsetting and not do or say something because we think someone else will take care of it, or they will speak out, or we don’t want to stand alone/out? What would our service look like if we no longer lied?
    - I liked the explanation Dan gave on page 57 for why he doesn’t mind being called an Indian, and how being called a Native American isn't any better. I admit that I struggle with what to call Indians, and there is a part of me that cringes every time I type or say Indian (cringe!!) and not Native American.
    ○ "I know it makes you kind of uncomfortable, not ever knowing which one is right. But I think that's good. It reminds you of how uncomfortable it is for us - we had our identity taken from us the minute Columbus arrived in our land".
    - Going back to the Earth/land Dan expounds on the idea that everything is connected in a beautiful way on page 70. Explaining how everything impacts everything. It really makes me question what unforeseen repercussions there are for my actions on those around me. If everything matters and is connected, what have I affected?

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    1. I totally see the lying through silence. Ignoring an issue does not make it go away.

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    2. Sarah-
      Your idea about the old shoebox being a metaphor for society is beautiful...It gives me a whole new perspective on that scene in the book...I am now thinking about what I am carrying in my life that should be "burned."

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  25. Wyatt Schlamp entry #1
    I would rate my knowledge about the native american people as a 5. When I grew up in Canada, there where often Native american (Native Canadian?) reserves some distance away, and many times the people would be in the small town I lived in. However, I did not have much interaction with them: nearly every single one of them was either and alcoholic or a drug attic. I say this sadly, as I wish it were not so, but unfortunate that is the reality, at least in that area.
    2) I was surprised that we were going to be reading a novel for a class. I did not mind that we were going to be reading about native amercians; I have done some reading about their ancient customs and culture before, so I was intrigued.

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  26. After reading the first six chapters I was drawn to the quote on page 76 when Dan said, "Owning things is what white people's lives are about." This reminded me of my grandpa, being Hawaiian and old he has ignorance and felt a certain type of way towards white people. He would say things like "They are always taking and they expect to always receive things." Like Native Americans it is very rare to find someone who is 100% Native Hawaiian, many of my people died of illnesses that settlers brought onto our island as well.

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  27. After readings chapters (7-13) Wenonah says words like, "your people" (p.99)
    Well what difference does it make? we are all going through struggles and everyone has different stories.

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  28. After reading chapters (14-20)Grover passed a sign that said "Business District" and they stopped at a café. The waitress brought coffee and soup that looked barely edible to those gathered at the table. A drunken Indian couple with no money for coffee gave a table of white men an excuse to criticize Indians. Dan and Grover commented on alcohol use, but Dan got agitated about these and other cultural differences. Were constantly facing issues such as these and it grew to he point where people are just numb to these situations and issues like theses never get adjusted or taken card of.

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  29. So much of what Dan shares with Nerburn stops me in my tracks. I cannot but help to see the truth of his words. I cannot refute them.
    In chapter 17, when Dan speaks about the difference between leaders and rulers I see my own thoughts about such matter line up with what Dan is saying. I too have always thought that leadership and respect are earned, not something that can be demanded or taken. There have been certain individuals that have demanded my respect or that I need to see them as a leader and it rubs me the wrong way and I react in backlash against it. That is not leadership. " A leader is a leader as long as the people believe in him and as long as he is the best person to lead" (pg. 200).
    The talk of religion made me nervous to read, as I have heard differing reactions to the evangelizing of Native Americans. "I like Jesus. Ever since I was a little boy and I learned about him I liked him. He was wakan. He should have been an Indian" (pg.207). I had not thought of it, but looking at who Jesus was through a Native American lens makes so much sense. Jesus lived a similar style and was rejected in the same manner as many Native Americans. After reading that chapter I thought about how we present our faith to others and how universal the story of Jesus really is.

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  30. After reading chapters (21-26)Dan told Nerburn, “You will drown under your facts” (278). talks about how white history has many facts and we are losing the meaning of the past when we just focus on the details of what has happened.
    Some of us can relate to this because people now a days don't really care to know whats happened in the past especially if it has no relevance to themselves which I find that people can be very selfish.

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  31. Two points towards the end stopped me and brought me to tears.
    1. "For that, my ancestors had been willing to lie and steal and kill old people and children, and then spend the next century remaking the story so that all the dead and all the betrayals would effectively disappear from history" (pg. 301).
    2. "Maybe it is we who are the true sons and daughters of God, who had to die on the cross of your fears and greed, so that you could be saved from yourselves" (pg. 317).
    So often I remove myself from my American identity because I am ashamed to be American. I look at all that has been done and all that is being done by America and it disgusts me greatly. I am not proud to be an American. These quotes articulate why. I know that I cannot really separate myself from the atrocities that have occurred, my background is linked to them through far reaching ancestors. While reading I wanted to read from afar but this book really challenged that and I felt that I needed to be open to personal examination. Not a distant scientific approach. My humanity needed to sit with the words of this text.
    And now I loop back to the question that was presented when we started this book/movie, why don't we know this? WHY!? We are doomed to repeat history again and again if it is always written and altered from the vantage point of the victor. We need to know what has happened and what is really happening. We need to be uncomfortable, otherwise history will stay on repeat. This text should motivate us to stop the cycles and ask those questions that are so commonly avoided.

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  33. -Linnette Meshack
    I just learned how to get to the blog with the help of my friend. My initiate rate before I begin reading was a 5 and I noted that I was excited to read a book about Native Americans so I could gain more knowledge about their culture (which I have).

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  34. Sarah Ch 7-13
    - Its interesting how Dan and Grover didn’t care about how the Indians looked, only how it made them look to white people.
    ○ What preconceived notions do I have about people different from me because of movies/TV?
    - What would Dan & Grover think of Thunderheart
    ○ Old wise Indian helps white boy.
    ○ Did they talk like Indians in this movie or like white people think Indians talk like.
    ○ Was it a movie about white people?
    ○ On page 93 even Kent recognizes the stereotype of a "wise" Indian when thinking about his publisher.
    - Dan says white people are better than hippies who are better than yuppies.
    ○ Where do they Indians fit in, in this line up?
    - Page 126 - "If you can buy it, it isn't sacred"
    ○ You are making it ordinary
    § How many spiritualties'/religions have gone down this path and are now ordinary? What pieces of other cultures have we taken and mutated from the original?
    - Dan believes that white people have changed, we will no longer turn against the Indians.
    ○ Is this true, have we seen what we have lost, what our actions have done. Will we work with the Indians in an attempt to save the Earth and ourselves?
    - I think we need to raise more white children to be careful talking to white people.

    How long (in white people time) did it take for Dan to call Kent "little brother" was this months? More than 2 trips?

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  35. Sorry I haven't posted yet, I am not used to this online homework stuff. I have very little understanding of the Native American culture, as I am not Native American. I will never understand what they went through despite how much I learn about their story. It's heartbreaking how we treated them when the white people came to America, and it's heartbreaking how we still treat them to this day. Native Americans are one of the most important parts of our culture and we need to embrace them rather than stereotype them as crazies. They live with the Earth and have a strong emphasis on honor, for which I agree we should incorporate in our morals as well. To put a number to it, I would say I am about a 4-ish. I am excited to finish this book and hope it sheds a new light on their culture from their perspective rather than how our history books portray them.

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  36. Chapters 14-20

    It's hard for to summarize this book without writing a paper. A lot of it is Nerburn describing things in detail for pages on end, and then finally Dan speaks up and says some really powerful things. I like when Dan tells Nerburn that "Keepers of the fire cannot be cowards. They're carrying the light." (pg. 169) It seems that in the Indian culture from what I've read at least that Indians will tell you how it is. If you have something important to say, then speak up. Dan views himself as a carrier of the light for his people and he feels as though it's time for his ancestors' story to be told.

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    1. Adam,
      I like that you said it seems like Indian culture tells you how it is. I have a cousin who is half Native and is very much intact with this side of her culture. I have gone to their reservation and met her Native family, I have to agree from my own personal experience that they are blunt and honest.

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    2. I also agree. My best friend is Native American and I have personally have seen the bunt and honesty played out. She has told me that she thinks the fact that Native American voices aren't being heard it apart of the reason why they are so blunt and honest.

      -Linnette

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  37. Chapters 14-20
    - Our cages are our freedom
    ○ The only freedom we have is inside our own cages
    § This is beautifully tragic, how we limit ourselves and it is comforting, how we have redefined freedom to fit.
    - It is more important to know what is right than to know what is wrong
    ○ As a western thinker, it is hard for me to wrap my mind around this, how can you know what is right without knowing what is wrong?
    - Massacre vs Victory
    ○ History is written by the victor
    - Is a story of how you filled it up and what happened while you were filling it. Pg 164
    - I wonder what Indians think of us claiming the moon and putting a flag on it
    ○ We one uped his idea of shooting an arrow into the sky and claim up to that
    - The way he describes the "white town" (173-174) is that how we want to live. Without energy, hope or personally expression.
    ○ If our world is a reflection of our character is our character bland?
    § I wonder how Dan & Kent would view Portland, a lot of it has personality and hope, and inherent energy in it.
    - I believe service simply defined is "we should both live the way we think is right & try to help each other as best we can" pg 181.

    Shouldn’t true service be this, not a way to convert but as a means to help.

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  38. After reading chapters 1-6, I noticed that Dan's feelings of being referred to as an Indian or Native American are much different then we would think to believe. I thought that we called his people Native American’s out of respect for the people that were in American before Europeans came. Dan said that these titles do not bother him because they are not real titles to him because he does not consider where he lives as America(57). This idea is interesting and gives a new insight about how the land is viewed by Dan and his culture/people.

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  39. Chapters 7-13, Is about how The Native American’s feel like they are on display for our amusement. That they cannot be themselves with out us judging them and or watching them. On pages 87, and 119, Dan and Grover compare Indians to animals at the circus or zoo; they are treated and looked upon like wild animals that need training in order to interact with the rest of mankind. This is one of the main themes in the overall mindset of Native American land and culture within The United States. It is not right to treat others in such a way that as a whole they all feel like caged animals on display for the public's viewing.

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  40. Chapters 1-6

    The first chapters of the book were very interesting as I’m unfamiliar with Native American culture. Dan stated that, “white people that come around to work with Indians, most of them want to be Indians” (p.15). I found that this statement ignited a thought within myself of how in society we tend to follow norms and want to fit in with specific people and conform to standards that we think will satisfy others. The concept of autonomy also came to mind, as it’s human nature to want to establish an identity within society. But this can also have ramifications as Dan stated, “the white man controls the air we breathe and the water we drink” (p.24). The concept of sacred space was also expressed and this reminded me of the first day of class when we took time to observe our surroundings and reflect upon what place or items we would classify as being sacred. This was a common theme throughout the book. Sometimes things are sacred to us and sometimes they are not. The lack of respect that outsiders displayed toward the land was also expressed. Within society we often classify one another’s socioeconomic status based off of the possessions that we own and display and this is an aspect of life that isn’t meaningful within the reservation. There is a mentality that is displayed in some individual’s mannerisms in the sense that they “will give nothing away unless you get something in return” (p.77). This thought saddened me as I feel a duty to serve others to help make this world a better place and in doing so I would never expect anything in return but I’m also realistic that sometimes we have ulterior motives and this can have lasting effects. There are a multitude of changes that occur within these first six chapters. Nerburn has a realization of what the process may entail in regards to helping Dan express his thoughts and he has gained a sense of different life lessons that he may learn from helping Dan and this will therefore enrich his life.

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  41. Chapters 7-13

    These next chapters recount the feelings of trouble and questioning that Nerburn exhibits. He becomes unsure as to if he should continue this process as he is missing his family tremendously. He also questions his role within the process of creating a book that would recount Dan’s viewpoints pertaining to the Native American culture. “If it was to be my project, it had to be on my terms” (p.96). The method and purpose was unclear in regards to conducting this book in a respectful way. He is also experiencing financial troubles and then to add to that concern is truck breaks down. The topic of the influence that movies can play in regards to formulating perceptions of cultures is also addressed. For instance Dan stated, “that was all people knew what they saw in Buffalo Bill and what they read in papers” (p.87). I felt as though this remark was fairly stereotypical as we can gain knowledge from a wide variety of avenues but I’m aware that movies can affect the thought process and decision making styles that are exhibited within society. There was then a spontaneous trip that occurred and Nerburn kept asking Dan where are we going? It eventually gets to the point in which I’m tired of hearing the same remark over and over but I could also relate in the sense that I like to plan ahead and feel prepared. We live in a society where we consistently expect an answer right away so it was refreshing to see that an answer wasn’t provided as it created an adventurous mindset and a change of pace. The concept of silence was also addressed throughout these chapters and the role it plays within the daily lives of Native Americans. Dan describes the purpose of silence when he states, “listen to me. We Indian’s don’t talk to white people much. We never have. There is a reason. White people never listened to us when we talked. They have only heard what they wanted to hear. Sometimes they pretended to hear and made promises. They broke those promises. There was no more reason for us to talk. So we stopped talking” (p.140). This quote brought to my attention all of the voices that are being silenced within this world as a result of our lack of listening and lack of understanding the value and insight that can be gained from simply listening to other people whom are speaking.

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  42. Chapters 14-20

    These chapters continue to take the reader upon the journey of the road trip. Nerburn expresses the differences that he is noticing within nature and making connections to familiar sights he has observed in his past. To Nerburn this place had order and as a result the topic of government and the role of hierarchal structure was introduced. The themes of freedom and honor were then compared and contrasted to the concept of power. Dan stated, “the white world puts all the power at the top, when someone gets to the top, they have the power to take your freedom” (p.156). I found this quote to be powerful as we address the concept of freedom and what it should look like in society on a frequent basis. Grover then emphasized the point that, “you will use your gift well if you stop being afraid of other peoples bad anger” (p.169). This was meaningful as we often allow another individual’s thoughts to hold us back from achieving our goal out of fear of failure or due to other feelings. If we can get past these fears in life it will provide us with an opportunity to grow as an individual in a wide variety of aspects.

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  43. Chapters 21-26

    The end of the book was very insightful as there are multiple observations that were made in regards to the viewpoints pertaining to traditions and the importance of the creator as well as the land. “They say that perhaps it is not by love, but by blood that land is bought. They say that perhaps my people had to die to nourish this earth with their truth. Your people did not have ears to hear. Perhaps we had to return to the earth, so that we could grow within our hearts. Perhaps we have come back and will fill the hills and the valleys with our song. Who is to know? There may be greater truths than ours. The creator hears and sees far over the horizon. I must cry my tears and sing my songs for my people, so that they will always be honored and will never die. But I cannot try and know the Creator’s ways” (p.315). This quote is quite powerful as it’s recognized that the Creator’s ways are indescribable and far more powerful and meaningful than anyone could ever explain. Some experiences in life are far too big to be described in words and when this occurs we need to allow silence to occur.

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  44. Chapters 14-20
    After reading these chapters and watching the movie there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings about Native American’s and their culture. That people who don’t know their culture tend to visualize a certain way that Indians live and how they are lazy and have a lot of trash. That they are live off of what the government gives them, and they should be grateful for what they have been given. After reading I was relieved that Indians are not lazy people they just have a different type of culture than we are accustom too. Being different is not always wrong; sometimes it can be a breath of fresh air. I also liked when Dan told Nerburn "Keepers of the fire cannot be cowards. They're carrying the light." (169) This shows that Natives are very prideful people. That in the Indian culture from what I've read is that Indians will tell you how it is. They might do so in a joking way but they will not lie about what they truly see and feel about someone or something.

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  46. Chapters 21-26
    After reading this book I was very happy to see that it was very insightful and full of knowledge that I believe many other Americans do not know about Native Americans. How they are not the people that we all might think they are. They are a prideful people that are very misunderstood and we should want to learn more about them. There are multiple observations that can be made in regards to the viewpoints pertaining to traditions and the importance of the creator as well as the land. I liked how Dan expressed himself and did not sugar coat it for the readers. I liked this Quote and how it summarizes Dan’s and other Native Americans thoughts about life and the world. It is quite powerful as it’s recognized that the Creator’s ways are indescribable and far more powerful and meaningful than anyone could ever explain. “They say that perhaps it is not by love, but by blood that land is bought. They say that perhaps my people had to die to nourish this earth with their truth. Your people did not have ears to hear. Perhaps we had to return to the earth, so that we could grow within our hearts. Perhaps we have come back and will fill the hills and the valleys with our song. Who is to know? There may be greater truths than ours. The creator hears and sees far over the horizon. I must cry my tears and sing my songs for my people, so that they will always be honored and will never die. But I cannot try and know the Creator’s ways” (315). Sometimes life experiences are too big to describe and there are no words that will help create the correct mood. Because of this we as people of this earth need to allow for silence and we all need to listen carefully to what the earth is saying to us.

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  47. I agree. I also was very happy to gain insight about the Native American Culture and what their values are. It sucks that we grow up learning all the negative stereotypes and a lot of times people don't learn the truth unless they seek out info or take classes to learn.

    -Linnette

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  48. Chapters 21-26
    - Dan talks about half-breeds and it made me wonder in Thunderheart if Ray was treated like not a white child by his adopted family.
    ○ I would assume he was due to the anger he had towards his heritage at the beginning of the film, but then he also saw his Indian father die from alcohol.
    - I think Dan's comments about whites bringing up "Indians" in conversations is a little harsh. People naturally want to connect with those they are conversing with. It's an unconscious response. Is race probably the wrong thing to bring up, yes, but if it is the only thing they can think of, they might not be to blame.
    - On page 273 Dan talks about Jesus. Does He transcend white logic? Is the man more important than the facts? I would argue yes.
    ○ I wonder if this is the problem with churches, and service now a days. We focus so heavily on the numbers. We baptized this many people, we did this many hours of service, this many people were fed, etc. It is no longer about the man, but the numbers.
    - I think the book can be connected abstractly.
    ○ It circles back to boxes (277), maybe America as a country has boxes it needs to burn in order to escape the cage of freedom and truly live with honor.

    Maybe this should be the way we bring about a revolution, we affect change.

    I truly enjoyed this book. Dan instilled some deep knowledge about Indian's and their way of life. But also about life in general and the changes that need to happen for the world to be right.

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  49. Through the movie, it was amazing to see the reality of the conditions the Native Americans were forced into. The fact that their spirits never broke and they never left their culture for the life of the "white man" is amazing. Even today, I don't think the resilience of the Native American spirit can be measured. The pride they have within themselves is inspiring.

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